From Comics to the Big Screen: An Interview With Polish Writer Bartosz Sztybor

janitor_-_good_as_gold-003.jpg, default, From Comics to the Big Screen: An Interview With Polish Writer Bartosz Sztybor, ‘Janitor – Good as Gold’, 2017, photo: courtesy of the artist, center, #000000

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Bartosz Sztybor was born in 1984 in the most dangerous district of Warsaw. As a kid, he wanted to be a gangsta rapper, but he became a writer instead. Now he writes comic books, movie scripts, TV shows and children’s books.

Sztybor’s comic books have been published in France by Sarbacane, Paquet, Ankama Editions and Europe Comics, and in the USA by Boom! Studios and Dark Horse Comics. His movies have won numerous awards all over the world, and as a scriptwriter, he has worked on original TV series with Netflix and Canal+.

Though he loves writing, Sztybor still sometimes dreams about being a gangsta rapper one day.

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Bartosz Sztybor, photo: courtesy of the artist

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Michał Chudoliński (MCh): Your fascination with comics started during your school years?

Bartosz Sztybor (BS): I associate the word ‘fascination’ with a very conscious approach, a strong engagement with the medium – so that appeared much later, probably while I was studying at the university. But I started reading comics before I started school. My mom used to buy French classics such as Thorgal or Asterix as well as Polish comics by Janusz Wróblewski or Janusz Christa (I particularly loved Kajtek i Koko, as opposed to the more popular Kajko i Kokosz). Then there was the invasion of American floppies published by TM-Semic – I collected Batman and the X-Men. At some point, for reasons unknown, I stopped reading comics for a few years, only coming back to them between high school and university. But I came back for good.

MCh: What makes you so interested in the language of comics, enough that it’s become the predominant way you tell stories?

BS: A lot of things, really. I like the unique combination of text and visuals, imparting meaning through images and writing, the whole spectrum of things you can do at the intersection of the two. I am fascinated by panels and pages as storytelling tools – no other medium has such a precise form of narrative. It’s incredible that one page of the script will always be one page of the comic, which allows for a great degree of control over form and the relationship with the reader. Despite the accompanying images, comics can be less literal than a book; they encourage you to go back and study a particular page. It can also be less literal than film because it allows you to stare at a panel or a page for hours. And finally, I love the fact that comics are silent, even though they contain sound and dialogue. And also that it’s such a great tool to depict the passage of time.

MCh: You have won prizes for short comics in Poland numerous times. Do you have a recipe for success when it comes to the short form? Do you write scripts with specific artists in mind?

BS: There have been years when I didn’t win anything, so I don’t think I quite have it down. I remember situations where I would submit two works to a competition, and the one I didn’t expect to do well would win, while my favorite would be overlooked. So I don’t think there is a recipe, although I’ve approached every comic with professionalism and commitment. Each one was supposed to utilise an efficient narrative in order to tell a moving story with a striking ending, and to engage the readers. And as it would later turn out, some were more engaging for readers, and some less.

But the collaboration with artists, which you mentioned, might be what matters most in all this. I never gave an artist a readymade script, unless it matched their style or I rewrote it. I always look at the style, temperament and the natural way a particular artist draws, so that they can bring out the best out of the story, so that we complement each other. I’ve read a lot of comics ruined by a mismatched team, so for me, each story belongs to a particular artist. Sometimes I get an idea and try to match the style to it, and sometimes I get so inspired by style that a story appears – but the script and the art always have to be in sync with each other.

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‘Que de La Gueule’ (What a Mouthful), 2020, photo: artist materials

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MCh: How would you describe your writing process?

BS: Oftentimes an idea just appears, and then I develop a theme and atmosphere around it; I look for the best way to tell this story. Otherwise I observe reality and notice a problem that I would like to talk about. Then I start to think what genre, set of characters, and story would fit it best. And sometimes I have a scene in my head, some sort of image, or I can feel an emotion, a vibe, and I try to follow that – I add other scenes, or analyse how this mood affects me. And so it’s hard to talk about a writing process, singular, because there are different ways ideas are born.

The development stage always looks similar. First, there’s a sentence containing the idea, then further sentences containing pieces of the history of this world. Then there’s searching for the theme (although sometimes it appears along with the idea) and sketching out the sequence of events. In the meantime, characters appear, and either they influence the course of the story with their behavior, or the story informs their psychology. When the plot is drafted in its entirety, I give it and myself a bit of rest, and then I come back after a while and tinker with it some more. And then again. And again.

When I’m satisfied with it, I show it to my beloved, Kalina, who’s my first critic. I implement some of her comments and insights, and then I get down to writing the script, or rather: creating a storyboard. Instead of writing from my head, I break pages down into panels, sketch the characters, give them drafts of dialogue. This is where I choose an appropriate way of telling the story; I try out panels and the pace of narration. After I finish this stage, I rest for a while, and then I write the whole thing down in the form of a classic comic book script. I polish the dialogues and make some tiny adjustments in the narrative, changing single panels. After a few days, I read it all and fix the small stuff, mostly in the dialogues.

Once I’m satisfied, I send the script to the artist. Sometimes things don’t work out the way I originally envisioned, and so either the artist makes corrections in the pencil drawings, or I work on the dialogues (switch their positions in the panel, add sentences or delete whole lines). Actually I tend to work on the dialogues until the very end, the lettering stage, clarifying the stuff left unsaid or removing excessive verbiage. I fall into a frenzy of editing, but I like the moment when everything is in its rightful place and I can breathe again.

MCh: Are you trying to find your own distilled voice?

BS: I sometimes think I should have my own distilled voice – but then I always realise that there are too many styles and ways of narration that interest me, so I’d rather speak in many voices. Or maybe I’m wrong and I already have one, but it’s the readers and critics who should attest to that, not me.

MCh: In Poland you’re known for independent, arthouse comics. Is it easy to switch to more mainstream projects, such as the ‘Witcher’ series, which you are writing?

BS: I think I would dispute what I’m known for, or even the distinction between mainstream and independent comics in Poland. Comics as a whole is a niche medium in Poland; when you look at the list of best-sellers, you’re going to see the mainstream Thorgal and the arthouse Maus right next to each other. Interestingly, in the US The Witcher is also classified as an indie comic, and its publisher – Dark Horse – as an indie publisher, so the divisions have been blurred for a long time.

As for me, I’ve never divided comics or movies into mainstream and arthouse. As a child, I would watch Double Impact starring Jean-Claude Van Damme, Tony Scott’s The Hunger, and The Shout by Jerzy Skolimowski in one weekend. That’s why I feel an affinity towards Quentin Tarantino’s movies and why I like to create stories that straddle the worlds of artistic ambition and mainstream entertainment. Additionally, I’ve published a few children’s comics in Poland which are probably closer to the mainstream, as well as Janitor (originally published in France), which told the story of a secret order of caretakers fighting monsters (very reminiscent of Hellboy or indeed The Witcher). So I don’t feel that I had to change anything in my approach to writing, because The Witcher and what it represents was already very close to my heart.

MCh: Which Polish comic book artists you think deserve to be known worldwide?

BS: I think that Tadeusz Baranowski’s comics have a very unique sort of wit to them, which could interest people abroad, although it could also be difficult to skillfully translate aspects of it strongly rooted in the Polish language and associations. I think Jakub Rebelka is extraordinary, but he outgrew Poland a long time ago and shows no signs of slowing down – a unique artist of brilliant vision and skill, an inspiration to artists all over the world. Przemek Truściński should also have an international career, as his range of styles, precision, talent, and capabilities are immense. And I have to mention Jakub Woynarowski, whose experiments with the medium are not only intriguing and engaging, but also unique on a world scale. Berenika Kołomycka is also fantastic – there’s nothing she can’t do. She’s equally authentic in children’s comics and a slice-of-life comics for adults; she has tremendous skill and excellent sensitivity. Michał Śledziński, Ola Szmida, Michał Rzecznik, Maria Rostocka, Piotr Nowacki, Zosia Dzierżawska, Tomasz Kaczkowski, and Agata ‘Endo’ Nowacka are all very special, for sure.

MCh: From your perspective, what shape is the Polish comics market in?

BS: I’ll confess I’m not that well-versed in the matter. It seems to me that it’s undergoing intense growth and represents a high quality. A decade ago I was aware of and sometimes purchased everything that was coming out. Today I’m unable to buy everything, and sometimes I even learn that a comic came out long after the fact. We have a lot of interesting publishers with distinct profiles who publish very good comics. We have access to classics and new titles, best-sellers and cult gems, comics from international markets large and small. As a reader I am being cared for, and still there are titles I buy in the original edition.

MCh: How is the market faring in the pandemic?

BS: Based on what I’ve heard from publishers, COVID was at times beneficial; people were sitting at home and needed entertainment. VOD and audiobook platforms grew, as did book and comics publishers, at least the ones I talked to. On the other hand, it’s hard to cheer when cinemas, bookstores and festivals are dying. I think post-COVID we should foster a dialogue between publishers and booksellers as well as distributors and cinema owners, so that they can help each other and come up with ways of reaching the audience that leave everyone satisfied.

MCh: And how were you personally affected by the pandemic?

BS: All I require is a bit of solitude, a desk, a notepad and a computer, so COVID didn’t change much in my work. I regret not being able to attend any of the comic book festivals I was going to, especially since I published two albums in France and two issues in the US, which I would have promoted at conventions. I have nothing coming out in France in 2021, so that’s a shame. But aside from that, my life is pretty much the same as it was; I removed a lot of clutter from my flat and started paying more attention to what’s really necessary.

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‘Le Chapeau Mystérieux de Monsieur Pinon’ (Mr Pinon’s Mysterious Hat), 2020, photo: courtesy of the artist

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MCh: What’s your experience with the comic book markets in France and the US?

BS: I don’t see a lot of difference: pitching, contact with the publisher, editing and the creation and publishing process are all quite similar. A professional French publisher works pretty much the same as a professional American publisher.

In France there are fewer stages of acceptance because the team consists of a writer and an artist who also takes care of colors and lettering. In the US – outside of the graphic novel market – there’s also a colorist and a letterer, and oftentimes a cover artist as well, which changes the process. But the main difference, I think, is that France and the US place the responsibility for the work on a different person – a different person is the auteur, so to speak. In France it’s the artist, and in the US it’s the writer.

MCh: How did you come to write a mini-series about Geralt from ‘The Witcher’?

BS: I started my work with CD PROJEKT RED as the writer of an upcoming Cyberpunk: Edgerunners anime. The atmosphere, an opportunity to work on unique projects, and a successful collaboration with the producer Rafał Jaki made me want to stay with the company for a bit longer. Aside from being a producer of the anime, Rafał is the person who started the production of comics at CDPR, and he trusted me enough that he made me narrative manager – meaning someone who helps him craft the comics (and other narratives) in the world of The Witcher and Cyberpunk 2077.

MCh: What can we expect from it?

BS: My Witcher will contain everything I love most about the books and the games – meaning mystery, a suffocating atmosphere straight from film noir, complex characters, and Geralt being forced to make morally difficult choices. The difficult choices and inability to classify actions as ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ were for me the main draw of Sapkowski’s books and CD PROJEKT RED’s games. I wanted them to be the main draw of my comics, too.

MCh: How do you approach writing a character from Polish popular culture? Are you trying to imbue the script with some Polish elements, or has Geralt become a global character by now?

BS: I don’t think there is much Polishness in Sapkowski’s Witcher at all. Yes, there are food, phrases or the behavior of particular characters, but the rest draws not just from Slavic folklore, but mainly from French and British fairy tales and universal narrative structures. There were a lot of Polish elements in the comics created by Maciej Parowski and Bogusław Polch. Although they weren’t much loved by the readers, I enjoy them for their depiction of Polishness – sometimes ironic and painful, sometimes colourful and original. In the games, on the other hand, there was Polish nature and architecture, so you can feel it the most there, but in a subtler way than in Polch and Parowski’s comics. In my series there won’t be much Polishness, at least at first sight; but the atmosphere will be close to any Pole’s heart, because it’ll be full of romanticism and sadness.

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‘The Witcher – Fading Memories’, photo: courtesy of the artist

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MCh: How was the collaboration with the artist Amad Mir and the colourist Hamid Sheykh?

BS: I think it went well. I met Amad a few years ago at the Angoulême International Comics Festival, when he was preparing his French debut. We worked on the first issue remotely: Amad would send me a few pages, and we would talk about them. Sometimes I would persuade him to do things a certain way; sometimes he’d say he was 100% convinced, and I would defer to him. We worked on the second issue in January 2020, in the distant times before the pandemic. I happened to visit the festival at Angoulême, and I met with Amad in his study, over pages from the second issue of The Witcher. We discussed some things over tea, in front of a computer screen, and then, when I returned to Poland and the pandemic hit, we continued our work remotely.

I never met Hamid; he was recommended for the project by Amad. We had another colourist who coloured three pages, but unfortunately her style didn’t quite fit the atmosphere of the comic and Amad’s aesthetic. Before I started to look for someone else, I asked Amad whether he could recommend anyone he’d collaborated with before. And so Hamid entered the scene, and he blew the universe wide open with his two trial pages. His colouring might be my favorite thing about the Fading Memories mini-series: nuanced, beautiful, building scenes in a wonderful way and creating a unique atmosphere.

MCh: You said in one of the interviews that you treat your Geralt story as canon. What do you mean by canon? Is it more connected to the books or the games? Or maybe continuity as such is obsolete?

BS: I am incredibly pedantic and a huge fan of logic and causality, so I will never say that continuity is obsolete. I was one of the people who got irritated that Terrence Howard played Rhodey in Iron Man and then got replaced by Don Cheadle for Iron Man 2 (even though Cheadle is much better in the role). If there is a divergence, if there is some inconsistency, you need a parallel universe in order to fix it. And so for me, my Witcher is a continuation of the books and the games.

MCh: What do you think is the main appeal of the ‘Witcher’ universe, its most distinguishing feature?

BS: As I’ve mentioned before, I think the main strength of the world of The Witcher lies in the shades of gray – the lack of distinction between good and evil, the complexity of the characters and the choices they make. Good doesn’t always win in that world, because you can’t always tell what good is.

Geralt himself, meanwhile, is a nice mix of traits: he’s a little bit of Wolverine, a little bit of Sam Spade, Philip Marlow, and Hellboy all thrown together.

MCh: What are your plans for after ‘The Witcher’?

BS: I don’t like to talk about my plans because they usually don’t come to fruition. I will say that I am currently working on a few comic books and shows, so if all goes well, in 2021 there will be new things to read from me, and in 2022 – new things to watch.

MCh: In your experience, what are the differences between comics and cinema/television, both in terms of the medium and the industry?

BS: The audiovisual media are seemingly the most complete, since they contain word, image, sound. But comparing a book to its movie adaptation, one can see that sometimes image and sound are no match for the power of imagination. Comics contain image, too, but it’s unmoving, divided into panels, so that you can appreciate the visuals, but there is also the power in their lack of complete closure. Just as I enjoy all the things that happen between the scenes in cinema, I enjoy the multitude of stories that happen between the panels. In movies it can only happen between two scenes, or a few more if you’re cross-cutting, but in comics there are at least five panels on two neighboring pages. In fact, I have a whole set of pages that I can juxtapose and connect formally, have them comment on one another, because the reader can easily flip back and forth to see their interplay. I only have to mention Fearful Symmetry, the fifth issue of Watchmen by the unparalleled Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. You couldn’t do something like that in movies or literature. That’s why I love comics.

I love cinema for the motion, the sound, the difficulty in going back to previous scenes, the reliance on memory and first impression. In short – all the stuff that I love comics for lacking. I like the movement of the camera, a thing you can try to imitate in comics; I do that sometimes, but it never looks as good as in a movie. I like the division into background and foreground, the opportunity to tell stories on two planes simultaneously, which is difficult to achieve on that scale in drawings. I also enjoy wide shots in which you can fit small stories, vignettes. And finally I like the realism, the power of certain creators to build authentic worlds, a level of immersion that blurs the border of the screen – something that I’ve never encountered in comics.

When it comes to the industry, it’s easier for creators to maintain creative control over comics; as a writer I can influence the artist, the colourist, the letterer. In cinema and television, it’s not as easy or as widely practiced, although there are producers who work with the writer on every stage of production and respect their vision, which I was lucky to experience. Cinema is a much larger undertaking – the process is longer, there are many more people with input, often creative input. If they’re talented, there’s a chance to create something more polished, artistically engaging on many levels. If they’re less skillful, the creative vision is smothered by compromises. It has to be said, however, that big publishers are not that different to big studios in terms of their approach to the work. There are always editors, notes, and discussions, growing in number proportionally to the amount of money invested.

MCh: During our previous conversation, you mentioned that the language of cinema exerts a large influence over comics, which is visible in the output of Marvel or DC. Do you think that trend is going to continue?

BS: It’s not even a matter of influence – it’s just that a lot of creators like to take shortcuts, to use easy solutions. I remember a very enriching conversation I had with Brian Azzarello about the way comic books become a storyboard for a movie, about the unwillingness of artists to experiment with form, to use the advantages the medium offers. Instead, they copy the movie approach so that it’s easier to sell a story to Hollywood. And meanwhile it’s the particulars of the medium that are its strength, as Moore and Gibbons demonstrated in Watchmen.

I’m a hopeful person, so I hope it’s not going to continue. Besides, amongst the big publishers, many keep up with things and employ interesting writers and artists, creators with something to say and a distinctive style. Thanks to them comics can demonstrate how they offer a separate and powerful medium.

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‘Cyberpunk 2077 – Big City Dreams’, 2020, photo: courtesy of the artist

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MCh: You are the editor of a ‘Cyberpunk’ comics series. What does overseeing and coordinate the work of artists on a project like that entail?

BS: I work as a narrative manager at CD PROJEKT RED, which in practice means I oversee, in part or in whole, all the creative projects related to the studio’s games. If there is a comic book, a show, or a tabletop game coming out related to The Witcher or Cyberpunk 2077, it’s entirely possible that I edited the text, created or co-created the storyline.

My input on comics is the largest, because aside from being a writer or an editor supporting another writer, I choose the topic of the story, the genre that suits it best. I look for creators that fit the overall vision, and I ultimately work with them on creating the best product possible. I discuss all those aspects with my superior, Rafał Jaki – the intersection of our preferences breeds interesting conclusions, so thanks to his comments, I can be sure that my choices will be artistically and commercially successful.

The combination of being a writer and an editor, as well as a producer of sorts, is on the one hand a huge responsibility, and on the other an immense honour and a chance to shape the quality and vision of the comic book. Besides, it’s a lot of fun to spend a week looking for a colourist who fits the ink-heavy style of the artist, or to browse thousands of covers to find the one artist whose style will fit the romantic and sad story of The Witcher. And later on, the discussions with all those immensely talented creators about style, message, approaches – that creative storm gives me an incredible boost.

MCh: What’s your comment on how the response to the games’ technical problems have impacted your work, if anything has changed for your plans with ‘Edgerunners’?

BS: Game development and what I do are separate, so no change of plans.

MCh: What’s the current approach to spin-offs and tie-ins?

BS: I think mass consumers are still distrustful of projects like that, assuming this type of product is simply a ruthless exploitation of an easy way to make money. But when I talked to Rafał and members of the board at CD PROJEKT RED, we had the same goal from the start: to make high-quality comics that won’t just be enjoyed by fans of The Witcher or Cyberpunk 2077, but enthusiasts of good graphic stories in general. And we’re succeeding! The series Cyberpunk: Trauma Team and The Witcher: Fading Memories have been received warmly by readers and critics. Funnily enough, some of the critics can’t believe that these are tie-in series – the comics are just too good.

MCh: Have you got any advice for people who’d like to lead a creative life like yours but don’t know where to start?

BS: Read and watch as much as you can. Draw inspiration and learn from the best. Be critical of yourself when you create, and confident when you send the finished thing out. Write, write, write, then submit stuff wherever you can and don’t get discouraged if no one replies. I’d attended the festival at Angoulême for 10 years and sent emails to publishers with comics pitches. For 10 years I failed, but in the 11th year, I received a reply and made my dream of publishing a comic at one of the biggest French publishers come true. If writing brings you more joy than pain, then that in itself is a reason to keep doing it and not give up.

Interview conducted in Polish by Michał Chudoliński

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