AP: The installation is aptly titled Archive of Hesitations. The second video is no longer bound by any paradigm that expects an answer to a specific question. Here, there is room for error, for hesitation, for silence. Unlike on a game show. Although, due to the architecture of the pavilion, we are showing them in separate rooms, we treat both films as part of the same installation. It is likely that the next exhibition, which will take place later this year at the Bielska BWA Gallery, will be arranged differently in architectural terms.
SN: Are the two videos like two sides of the same coin: oppressive and non-oppressive, good and bad, alien and familiar?
AP: You could interpret it that way, but that wasn’t our intention – we didn’t want to rely on the logic of opposition. The two experiences are inseparable. Such a dichotomy is a false distinction; our aim was to show the co-existence, or even the interdependence, of the two systems.
WZ: The second video is a gesture indicating that non-dogmatic knowledge also exists. Certain aspects of it are largely inaccessible to us within the contemporary logic of capital, and indeed the exploitation of our imagination. We weren’t interested in presenting a good or bad hero here, but rather in recognising mindfulness as a peculiar, contradictory protagonist who guides us through life, all too often ‘on autopilot’. Hence our hesitations…
SN: I asked about this because I was wondering whether *Archive of Hesitations* might be interpreted as a critique of Western discourse, which is based in science and evidence.
WZ: Or rather, a critique of pseudo-science, of spurious evidence, often distorted and corrupted. The biggest bankers – acting as government experts. The falsehood of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in a given country – presented as fact. Society, the communal sphere – portrayed as a transparent myth, a commune. It is a call for critical thinking, for both incisive expertise and an ear for grassroots experiences. One of the quiz participants, a mechanic by trade, mentions at one point the workers’ strikes of the 1990s. Today they are a repressed history, yet they could serve as a link between the Solidarity era and the present day.
The things we are told are part of a certain ethos, a political strategy. My aim was to show how the elements of the historical and political narrative that reach us are curated. Today, this is done not only by governments but also by large corporations, often with the two working in tandem. It is important to check sources and to talk; then a/b/c/d will quickly fall apart for us. No grandmother’s anecdote fits into the logic of AI. When someone tells a story, something completely different happens.
AP: What is significant in the Archive is the introduction of the concept of affective, emotional knowledge. So we are not talking about what is better or worse, but we point out, for example, that affective knowledge is ready to reveal the conditions of its production. It does not pretend to be objective and transparent, which contrasts with the knowledge presented in a game show.
I will return to television programming in the 1990s and early 2000s, when the framework of our morality was taking shape – and when children in schools raised their hands, voting in favour of the invasion of Iraq. The ideology that shaped that kind of knowledge was communicated as objective and neutral. So, in a sense of a certain honesty, affective knowledge is, after all, something better. We encounter such knowledge, for example, when our great-grandmothers speak of how they themselves remember the war. When they recount what happened to them.
WZ: Today, social media platforms serve us up a mixed bag: one moment a video of someone making pancakes, the next a kitten, the next the bombing of Ukraine. Of course, we often connect through them, including in our activism, but they usually lead us towards a sense of powerlessness and alienation. The content plays on our emotions, our fatigue; it toys with our attention and fabricates truths. At this pace of information flow, hesitation and questioning are almost impossible to practise, yet they harbour explosive potential. This is as old as the hills, or at least as old as Socrates.
SN: Your installation includes curtains printed with excerpts from Weronika’s poems. What role do they play?
AP: Because they are semi-transparent, they – much like our second video – refer to the elusive. At the same time, they reflect what lies before them, somewhat like a mirror. We wanted the exhibition visitors to be able to immerse themselves in this elusiveness, so that their participation would not consist merely of watching the video.
The fact that the poetry is fragmentary, that it does not immediately catch the eye, is a key feature of our entire installation. I imagined that the moment when a viewer stumbles upon it unexpectedly would be far more interesting and meaningful than if it were to appear before them the moment they entered the pavilion.
WZ: In a way, she also links the two films. I write about memories, afterimages from my childhood and teenage years; I try to capture the elusive. I’ve always been struck by something Audre Lorde, the American poet and essayist, once said: that throughout history, places of poeticism and nuance have had to hide in order to survive, and so they are accessible only in shadows, in fragments. Through my poems, I try to peer into those fragments.
SN: To conclude, Weronika, I’d like to return to the figure of your grandmother, who was a constant presence throughout your childhood. Otherwise, you’d probably have watched TV with your dad or your friends. You mention her in the description, but she isn’t featured in either of the videos.
WZ: But she’s certainly very much present in my poems. At first, I thought our video installation would also feature my grandmother’s voice, but I decided against it. She’s a huge part of my life, and that’s something I want to keep to myself.
It’s a very interesting topic for another conversation – what aspects of our own lives we convey in artistic projects. For me, intimacy means sticking to the text and not recording my grandmother’s image or voice, so as not to take them to a place foreign to her. This isn’t the right time; it’s too fragile.