In Search of Europe’s Superhero Theme: An Interview with Aleksander Dębicz

aleksander_debicz_fot._michal_sierakowski.jpg, default, Aleksander Dębicz, photo: Michał Sierakowski / courtesy of the artist

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On cinema, improvisation, artificial intelligence and the search for a common European emotion – pianist and composer Aleksander Dębicz reflects on what connects ‘Mazurek Dąbrowskiego’ with ‘Ode to Joy’ in a conversation about his new piece ‘Unity’, which will be performed at the concert closing the cultural programme of the Polish Presidency of the Council of the European Union.

Aleksander Dębicz’s composition will be presented on 24th June 2025 in Studio 4 of Brussels’ Flagey cultural centre, the former headquarters of the Flemish radio station VRT. The piece will be performed by the musicians of the Unity Ensemble: Jakub Józef Orliński (countertenor), Aleksander Dębicz (piano), Marcin Zdunik (cello), Michał Żak (flute), Łukasz Kuropaczewski (guitar), Konrad Gołda (horn), Maxima Sitarz (violin), Małgorzata Wygoda (bassoon), Marcin Ułanowski (drums) and Wojciech Gumiński (double bass).

Filip Lech: You’re a classically trained pianist, but your main occupation is creating your own music. Can you walk us through this transition from interpreter to creator?

Aleksander Dębicz: In my case, the path was smooth and natural. As a pianist, I went through every level of classical music education, but since childhood I’ve always liked to compose and improvise. It’s a form of playing with music, which I’ve always loved. The breakthrough moment was definitely winning the Transatlantyk Instant Composition Contest in 2013 – that's when I spread my wings and believed I could create my own music [The competition involves simultaneous composing and synchronous improvisation to an image – ed.].

Exactly 10 years ago, I recorded Cinematic Piano, my debut album of original compositions, which I gradually included into my repertoire. Back then, I hardly dared to write for instruments other than the piano, but today I create music for large ensembles. I simply love composing! It’s partly because creating music is a constant process of learning and developing my skills. I still perform music by other creators, but I understand that I find the most fulfilment playing my own music and improvising, with classical music still being the most important point of reference for me.

Did you have problems at music school because of your predilection for composing?

Quite the opposite. All the teachers looked on it favourably, even encouraged me to do it. I was very lucky – I didn’t have any unpleasant experiences at school.

What about improvisation?

Improvisation is a beautiful art form that involves creating in the here and now – just like that. I like to compare it to natural speech. Our conversation is also an improvisation – you didn’t send me questions in advance and I didn’t prepare answers – but we move within a certain convention, we use a specific language. By learning new ways of communication, we’re able to reach the audience in a more convincing way. My compositions often come from ideas that were born in improvisation. Then I improve, change and refine them.

Are there any musical styles or conventions that you’d like to use, but haven’t had the opportunity yet?

It seems to me that the style of each artist is a result of their experiences and fascinations. I’m open to different musical styles, I like to explore different genres, including those seemingly distant from my interests. Musical fusions come to me very naturally, it’s something that characterises my work. I call it ‘cinematic classical’ – a music whose mood and logic resemble film narration. It’s a highly suitable style for combining with other genres, such as world music or pop. But I’m going to have to skip ahead because I can’t answer your question regarding what else I’d like to try. I like to surprise myself whenever I come across a phenomenon that I want to open myself up to.

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Aleksander Dębicz: „Cedar Tree” feat. Jakub Józef Orliński

Were you ever interested in free improvisation, the avant-garde style?

I’ve a rather ambivalent attitude to it, though I have played freestyle at concerts many times, without any preparation. Nevertheless, I hear a lot of fakeness in that approach. Playing just anything reminds me of saying whatever comes to mind. Sometimes, as a result of some special confluence of energies, something interesting does come out. But I usually prefer well-thought-out artistic messages, when the creator knows exactly what they want to convey to the audience. For me, performing without prior preparation is a form of ignorance, or maybe even arrogance. It’s the easiest type of improvisation, I think, as it doesn’t require any thinking.

Sometimes free jazz improvisations are based on graphic notations or the language of gestures.

In my opinion, that’s only clear to the musicians, not necessarily to the audience.

An important point of reference in your work is the world of cinema and film music. In the last decade, we can observe a clear change in film sound. Many creators rely entirely on electronic music, and some use only extensive sound design.

Indeed, there are certain changes in film music, but I try to avoid such generalisations. Music in film is subordinate to the image, one could say that the film work determines the sound. Cinematography is subject to constant transformations, so the sound in film also changes. That being said, I’ve noticed a longing for beautiful themes in the style of John Williams or Ennio Morricone. They appear less frequently in cinema, but not because of a lack of talented composers, but because of the lack of space for these poetics. We can often find it in animations, as well as in dramas.

But I have noticed interesting phenomena on the threshold between music and sound design. I really like what the duo of Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross do [The musicians of the band Nine Inch Nails, create film music together. Their soundtrack from the film ‘The Social Network’ directed by David Fincher was awarded the Golden Globe and the Oscar. In recent years, they have been collaborating with Luca Guadagnino]. Creative, artistic sounds that I haven’t heard before. Proposals that are limited to pure sound design don’t always suit me. Music has a different function in film, it has an extraordinary power and can have a mighty effect on the viewer. So I prefer when musical means are used for that purpose.

Has there been anything that has really caught your attention as a viewer lately?

The series Severance and its phenomenal music by Theodore Shapiro. I heard old-school elements in it – at times, it’s reminded me of David Shire’s music for Francis Ford Coppola’s The Conversation.

‘Severance’ also features a lot of older music, from the 1960s and 1970s. There are also some modern electronic pieces, not composed by Shapiro, using samples from old recordings.

There are also some completely modern electronics, and I really like that blend.

I also really liked the music in Pedro Almodovar’s recent film The Room Next Door composed by Alberto Iglesias. I am a fan – probably one of only a few – of Joker: Folie à Deux directed by Todd Phillips. I think it’s an outstanding film, and I especially like the way it uses songs. Every year, the cinema has movies with great music – for me, it’s a huge inspiration and drive for creativity. I think that this art form has a place for every artist who can use their own language.

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Aleksander Dębicz, photo: Michał Sierakowski / courtesy of the artist

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On 24^thJune, the premiere of a piece you composed for the Polish Presidency of the EU Council will take place in Brussels.

I wanted to emphasise in it that unity in diversity is possible, which is a great theme to end the Polish Presidency with. That’s why I wanted the music to be easily accessible, while at the same time expressing depth and complexity. I think the style I call cinematic classical perfectly captures this. I wanted to capture this diversity with an unusual line-up – it’s a piece created for an ensemble of soloists, both male and female, with whom I collaborated on the recording of my last two albums: my own Magnolia and #LetsBaRock, created in collaboration with Jakub Józef Orliński. He’ll be the one singing. Michał Żak will play the flute and cymbals, Małgorzata Wygoda the bassoon, Konrad Gołda the French horn, Marcin Ułanowski the drums, Łukasz Kuropaczewski the guitar, Maxima Sitarz the violin, Marcin Zdunik the cello and Wojciech Gumiński the double bass – outstanding musicians, the absolute top of Polish performers.

And Aleksander Dębicz will be sitting behind the piano. Will each of the musicians be present on stage for the entire performance of the piece?

Yes. The musicians of the Unity Ensemble play together, but they also have solo functions. Unity is divided into seven parts, connected by interludes, based on my previous collaborations with individual soloists. We’ll hear duets and trios. These fragments are creative arrangements of European music, from Bach and Chopin, to Albéniz and Ravel.

What are the titles of the individual parts of the piece?

‘Opening’, ‘Boundaries’, ‘A Dream’, ‘Problems’, ‘Hope’, ‘Seed’ and ‘North Star’ – the titles of these parts perfectly reflect the topics that we face within the European community. I wanted them to not only talk about problems, but also about the hope of overcoming them. I do think that we cannot fully unite in Europe due to the lack of a common emotion. Although we have strong economic and political connections, we lack this real, common, collective bond – symbols that could unite us. Let’s look at the United States – today, after so many years, they have their own common language of emotions that still unites them.

What is always considered typical of Americans – despite the current turbulence – is this specific unity. We know that it’s one country, but at the same time very diverse. We can laugh at it, at their search for symbols, such as a flag, but they still have this vibe that is palpable, especially in films, right? And Europe lacks that. However, I don’t think it’s a utopia – it is possible to preserve our cultural distinctiveness, to cultivate it. These differences are of great value, each country brings something unique. At the same time, it’s worth opening up to others and collaborating. That’s the emotion I wanted to capture in this piece.

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Aleksander Dębicz - The Union [Official Music Video]

You talked about references to Western European music. Do you also reach for inspiration from other parts of Europe?

Yes, definitely. You can hear those sorts of influences in this piece too, because I used the dulcimer. Michał Żak will play both the flute and the dulcimer, which completely changes the sound and reroutes it. [Michał Żak is a musician who composes for film and theatre. His main field of interest is Polish traditional music and world music, but he also reaches for other traditions and uses wind instruments like the wooden flute, clarinet, bansuri and shawm. He is a member of Tęgie Chłopy, Janusz Prusinowski Kompania, Lautari, Indialucia and Adam Strug's band] There are so many wonderful musical phenomena in Europe that there’s nothing worse than closing yourself off from them. Every country has something unique to offer, but you just have to be able to reach for these sources.

I have to admit that, for a long time, I didn’t appreciate Polish folklore and tradition. It was only working with Michał Żak that allowed me to understand what this art really is. Michał showed me how valuable the music is when performed by true enthusiasts. I used to be unable to get interested in them, but now I understand their depth.

What functions do the other soloists fulfil?

First of all, their roles are equal, although I didn’t initially plan to create a democratic piece – it just happened that way. Łukasz Kuropaczewski is a guitar virtuoso, it’s really hard to imagine a greater one. Marcin Zdunik is a genius – that needs no explanation. Jakub Józef Orliński is an extremely versatile artist, gifted with a wonderful imagination and masterful vocal technique, which sounds absolutely angelic. Małgorzata Wygoda is a stage torpedo – it may not be obvious, because she plays the bassoon, but she has such charisma, she’ll certainly delight the audience. Personally, I’m fascinated by these unusual combinations – the bassoon with the countertenor, and the French horn, which is one of my favourite instruments, beautifully connecting the whole, but sometimes coming to the forefront. Konrad Gołda will definitely be great, he’s very creative.

I can’t wait for the rehearsals and I’m very curious how it’ll sound live. It’s always accompanied by a mixture of fear and excitement, but there’s nothing more beautiful than hearing outstanding musicians performing a composition I’ve created. The feeling’s incomparable to anything else.

Will you use any ready-made lyrics in the vocal layer?

I’m no poet, and no lyrics have come to mind. I appreciate the abstract side of music – not everything has to be said directly. Jakub Józef Orliński will cover the vocals – when I compose for him, we usually prefer this arrangement. When it comes to working with Jakub, it works fantastically – he operates the voice-instrument as a virtuoso and always delights.

Can we expect musical quotes?

I refer to Ode to Joy, a fragment of Ludwig van Beethoven’s 9th Symphony. When it was the 15th anniversary of Poland’s accession to the EU, I spontaneously wrote a piece called The Union for solo piano, in which I combined Beethoven with Dąbrowski’s Mazurka [the Polish national anthem]. I noticed that their themes coexist perfectly, even when played simultaneously without changing anything. I found it to be a great metaphor. In Unity, I don’t quote Beethoven as literally, but his echoes resonate throughout the composition. Especially in the three-note main motif, which I took directly from the structure of Ode to Joy. You could say it plays the role of a superhero motif. It might sound naive, maybe even childish, but I’m deeply convinced that Europe needs this sort of thing today. I hope it isn’t kitschy, but I see the need for a simple yet beautiful message that’ll show us how much we can accomplish together.

Our generation does remember the world before the European Union, but they’re vague memories from our youth. We’re the first generation to belong to Western Europe. In conversations with musicians from previous generations, I often hear about prejudices and negative stereotypes that still affect their contact with foreign countries.

I don't remember anything like that happening to me. I’ve always encountered kindness. I remember hearing once that it’s harder for Polish artists to gain attention because they don’t have something as characteristic as Georgians or Spaniards do, who are very expressive and lively. Or – from the other side of the emotional spectrum – Icelanders. Poland, for many, remains undefined. In any case, I’ve never encountered ostracism because of nationality.

I don't think I’ve ever experienced it either, but I remember a conversation with Elżbieta Sikora, a Polish but also French composer, who’s lived there since the 1960s and moves among the cultural elite. She mentioned that when someone found out she was Polish, it wasn’t uncommon for them to say, ‘Oh, interesting, I have a Polish maid.’

Today, similar words would probably be said about Ukrainians. Soon, it might be time for another nation. Unfortunately, history naturally has its consequences.

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Aleksander Dębicz, photo: Arkadiusz Obszyński / courtesy of the artist

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When we talk about Ukraine, it’s impossible to ignore the topic of war. Besides, security is the main theme of the Polish presidency. Will we find any echoes of war in ‘Unity’?

I can’t rule out that the war abroad doesn’t subconsciously influence the music I create. I don’t work in a vacuum, I watch the news. In one part of the piece, I want to show that problems can be overcome if we tackle them together. However, I’ve always avoided simple, unambiguous statements – I believe that music and art aren’t meant to impose ready-made answers. We need metaphors and spaces that allow for individual interpretation.

What is European culture to you?

The diversity of cultures that create it, but above all the richness of classical culture and aesthetics, which are immortal. Look at contemporary narrative arts – film, literature or theatre. In essence, everything has already been said by Shakespeare, only the decorations change. It’s similar in music – we all refer to the past and that’s beautiful. Some say that everything has already been said, but such thinking’s completely alien to me. I know I’m commenting on and continuing the past, but it doesn’t block me at all.

To me, European culture is the most interesting and has the most to offer – I think that can be stated objectively. And I’m saying this with full admiration and respect for other cultures that have their own colour and value. Incidentally, they very often reach for patterns developed in Europe.

When talking about the idea for your piece, you mentioned the unity that characterises Americans.

I feel very good in the States, I like their openness. Of course, I can only talk about the circles I move in – maybe if I went south and sat down with people who don’t mix with others much, it wouldn’t be as nice. But I do think Europe needs some American traits.

Americans are aware that their history is very short. When they hear a piece from the Baroque period, it’s a big wow for them – you can feel it.

They also have a huge enthusiasm for working together, which I miss in our thinking. In fact, the most important thing in creation is enthusiasm! There are many stories about the creation of American films that were struggled to be made, with penny budgets and a tiny crew, but with great determination. Some of the most interesting works from American cinema were created thanks to clever hustling, networking and meeting people in natural situations.

You said you avoid simple declarations, but the title ‘Unity’ itself is a declaration, not to mention the subtitles of the subsequent parts. What social and political value does music have for you?

I certainly have no illusions about music being able to change the course of history or politics. But it can influence emotions – and emotions are key in politics today. Election results often depend not on substantive arguments, but on skilful control of social moods. And that is exactly what political players do. If my music can inspire someone to do something good, then I am very happy. Quite simply. An artist is there to move – to provide emotions and encourage reflection.

Making music together is a value.

There’s nothing more beautiful than creating music together!

It reminds me of initiatives such as El Sistema – a programme initiated in 1975 by José Antonio Abreu in Venezuela, which engaged young people from ‘difficult neighbourhoods’ in creating an orchestra together. Over time, similar projects began to be created all over the world. Do you ever get involved in teaching?

I do sometimes run workshops for pianists, although I haven’t yet participated in projects of that nature. But I do believe they’re extremely important and have great potential. If such an offer came up, I’d certainly be very open to it. When it comes to the Venezuelan orchestra El Sistema, its effects were truly phenomenal. Thanks to music, it was possible to pull children away from poverty and crime. The emotion that sound brings is often a salvation. Such activities are also of great importance in hospitals and prisons. Music has great power, and people are naturally sensitive – you just have to awaken that sensitivity in them. All of us knows someone who normally seems thick-skinned and devoid of emotion, but in contact with the beauty of sound, they suddenly open up and soften.

Returning to musical topics... Do you compose on a computer?

I literally finished my new album yesterday. This time I wrote everything down by hand, but that’s an exception. I write my first sketches of ideas with a pen in a special notebook. Later, I work on a computer because it’s more convenient and legible. Recently I watched an interview with Quentin Tarantino, in which he said that he writes exclusively by hand, because according to him, poetry can’t be created on a computer. I don’t have that extreme an approach, but this analogue vibe does really inspire me. I look for ideas at the piano with a pen in my hand. After that my workflow becomes quite modern.

I’m reminded of a scene from the documentary ‘Music by John Williams’ in which the composer shows how he writes everything by hand and jokes that his younger colleagues do it much faster because they work on computers. It’s hard to imagine him creating more, he is quite a prolific artist...

There’s an opinion that when you write by hand, you devote more attention to each note – there’s no ‘copy/paste’ option then. There is something to that. I like combining the classical and modern approaches myself. I have that in many areas – I love modern technology, but I approach vintage things with equal sentiment. I listen to music via streaming, but I also love vinyl. This even applies to cars – I appreciate modern solutions, but old models have a unique charm for me.

To close our conversation, I’d like to ask a question that I ask every composer. What does it mean to be a composer?

You know, a composer, like any artist, simply has a need to create something and share their music – and they do. Does it have a special social function? I don't think so. That is to say: every profession has a social role. A composer couldn’t create freely if they didn’t have access to food – and they have this access thanks to suppliers, shops, trade and so on. There are many examples of that. That’s why I don’t see the profession of composer as having any special social mission. Although for me, creating music is something special – that’s for sure. But it’s rather the personal emotion that’s associated with it. And I don’t expect others to look at composers in the same way.

So composing is emotions.

Definitely yes. I have to say that I’m also excited about the craft itself. I don’t like it when it’s underestimated – especially in art. It’s the craft that allows emotions to fully blossom. Without it, everything just blurs somewhere.

Do you feel threatened by artificial intelligence?

For now – no. I use chatbots very regularly, but not for composing. Although I have to admit that I did have one interesting experience: I threw an arrangement I’d made into the chat – it wasn’t a composition – and jokingly asked if it could assess the level of my orchestration. I thought it’d be impossible, but the AI generated a really extensive analysis for me. The kind I’d expect from a composer who had carefully studied the score. The AI did make a few mistakes – for example, the bar numbers didn’t match. But I was amazed at how it formulated its comments. For example: ‘If this procedure was a conscious sonoristic intention – fine. But if not, it’s worth writing it differently.’ The very fact that the algorithm was able to put it this way made a big impression on me. In many places, it was indeed my intention, but, when it came to one suggestion, I did actually change something. I believe that sooner or later AI will find employment in composition – it’ll speed up the process, just like music notation programs used to do. It’ll definitely be used for music in commercials – maybe with the exception of campaigns for luxury brands, which will want to have an artist’s signature and even brag about it.

However, I still think AI only synthesises what already exists. It doesn’t invent anything new. Humans, with their unpredictability and madness, can create something truly surprising. That’s why I treat AI as a tool. And I believe that those who learn to use it will win – because they’ll work faster and become more attractive on the market.

Interview originally conducted in Polish, May 2025, translated into English by Michał Pelczar, May 2025.

Language English

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