Debra Richards: Hello my name is Debra Richards, I'm a music journalist and broadcaster based in the UK. You're listening to the podcast Rebel Spirits, offering a unique insight into the progressive and innovative talents of Polish jazz. Season three interviews musicians that have decided to connect across countries and cultures. And today on the show are: Ania Rybacka and Stefan Pasborg.
Throughout the Rebel Spirits series it is clear that music based on improvisation requires great technical ability and open-hearted listening. Voice 'n' Drums is from the duo of Polish vocalist Ania Rybacka and Danish drummer Stefan Pasborg and is a true experiment in one of the strongest impulses of human behavior – to connect.
Ania prefers to disregard genres and musical labels and wants to explore music with complete personal freedom. Her work has ranged from an experimental approach to performance such as her 'Voice and Movement Encounters', to the electronic trio, Blueberry.
Stefan Pasborg on the other hand is a bandleader, composer and a founder of the artist-run label, ILK Music. He's a musician I first became aware of when he released The Firebirds – a brave interpretation of Stravinsky's Firebird for a trio. It was followed by the fabulous 'Ritual Dances' based on the Rite of Spring and reveals the risks and responsibility Pasborg is capable of.
Voice 'n' Drums could not be a more different project. Pasborg draws on his sensitivity and mastering of an empathetic response to the ideas Ania intuitively offers him, resulting in an exquisite exchange, an intimate conversation.
In this interview the artists reveal the vulnerability they felt making music based entirely on improvisation, and just as a duo. It's an engaging insight and brings a fresh zing to us as listeners of their enthralling piece, 'Aurora'.
Ania Rybacka: So the voice and drums album was recorded in the time of my musical research that was all about making connection with another person. It was actually very impulse driven, we met in the conservatory by accident, and then I asked him if we can jam together.
Stefan Pasborg: I think we met like three or four times in the rehearsal room and just improvised. No ideas upfront, just beginning to improvise from scratch. And that's how we also recorded the album. We went into the studio without any ideas of what to do.
And that's when you can actually sometimes create music that's magical.
Normally, I'm not very interested in working with singers, because I like to tell stories without words. And normally singers use words. And what I was very interested in from the beginning with Ania was her way of telling stories without specific words, but but more you know, like using her voice as an instrument.
AR: It's not a language that the syllables that I'm using, again, they're just parts of muscles that are working in the moment, you know, the, “D” the “T”, it's just it's kind of a free language, it doesn't express anything in particular. The language that we're using on that album is definitely musical, not verbal.
SP: Meeting in a duo is always very intense. Because it's a conversation really just to be very basic around it. It's a deep conversation between two people who are not supported by a third or fourth voice.
AR: When you're only two people and you, kind of, like, from this regular kind of setup, you miss a bas, you miss some kind of harmony. So there's so much space, there's a lot of space. And in order to feel free in it, in order to be able to create something that is fulfilling you need to concentrate 100%. Be in it with all your awareness with all your presence.
I’m driven by that concept in general, this state of mind, where you can be completely in sync with another person. And we can experience that by dancing, in therapy, by a very good conversation, but also by improvising together, in this clean state of mind, where there are no other distractions.
SP: Normally, you will have three or four or even five, in a band, it's like, there's so many possibilities of combining the elements of instruments. And that's why, you know, that's the band sound, you know, but when you have a duo setting like this, the extra collaborator is actually space, just the sound of nothing. And that's what's so beautiful about playing is that there is actually another player playing with us. And that's the sound of nothing. And that's actually why it can feel naked sometimes.
AR: Sometimes it feels like something is missing, or sometimes it feels like we're very naked, being only drums and voice. But at the same time, that's sometimes the best thing in it, right? Because I also use electronics and looping and harmonies. Not a harmonizer, but making harmonies with recording my voice over and over. But when electronics are there and they are not organic, they can't follow, they can't be present with us, they are mechanical, right? Then they kind of also take us away from that state of concentration because there is something that is not following you know, something is not in sync. So that was also a challenge.
SP: It's actually something, you know, the dogma instructors, who invented the dogma movies, in the I think it was in the 90s, right? They made some rules to make it more difficult for themselves, you know, to cut to the bone, if you can see that in English, I'm not sure.
That thing with the loop machine has been very difficult for me, because I'm so used as a drummer, that when you have something that is repetitive, like a loop, it's always kind of precise, you know, it's like you want precision, that's that's the goal to make its swing or make it in time and in grid. You want to make it kind of sharp. But then Ania, she introduced this loop with the imperfection and I'm so used to as a drummer to building up to something and then hit a beat like this. And then when the beat is coming a little bit later, a little bit before it takes time to get that into your system. It’s like listening to somebody sing out of pitch, which it takes a little bit time to just accept it, you know, it's like but then then it becomes music at some point.
AR: If I make a loop and it's not completely perfect, which means that that the beat, the loop starts just before, like, a millisecond before it's supposed to in time, then it kind of challenges me to accept that and work around this. Every type of imperfection of this mechanic world that is supposed to be perfect. It also makes it a challenge and makes me more creative becauseI have to figure out how I use that, you know how I follow that. When we're improvising, I'm not allowed, you know, it's not allowed to just stop and say: “Hey, let's try over again or let's try to make a perfect loop” or something like that. So it makes me accept,because acceptance is a great part of what a good improvisation is, right? You accept everything that happens, you have to. Otherwise you won't be present in the improvisation.
SP: I understand why, to some people, it can feel like a risk. But, you know, this whole business, what I've been doing for all these years, is actually always taking risks. Improvised music is built on risk. So without that element, it's not improvised. This album is completely improvised, like 100%. We met for four hours in the studio and just played for four hours with Stefan. So the pieces that we picked from these for our improvisation are just parts that we decided that are worth listening to or can give something to the listener or that we enjoyed or liked the most.
AR: The whole album is dear to me. But as a listener, I think I appreciate Aurora the most, which is a little bit longer piece, it’s over seven minutes. I feel that there's so many details in it, so many interesting moments and elements in it, that it actually makes me be in it a lot. And then it creates this intense experience emotionally, there's so much sound in the end that it's almost hard to continue to listen to, because it kind of becomes a little too much but at the same time if you stay in it, it gives you this experience that I value, like you’re filled with sound. That’s how I feel as a listener.
SP: It's like creating a carpet of sound and just make it come alive. We have a very strong build up over those six, seven minutes. So it’s a long crescendo.
AR: There is so much sound in the end that my body feels filled, and then there is this type of catharsis experience. Then it calms down and you feel the space after it, inside of you. And I really enjoy listening to it.
My name is Ania Rybacka and this is “Aurora” from “Voice ‘n’ Drums” with Stefan Pasborg.
DR: This episode of Rebel Spirits was hosted my: Debra Richards, and produced by Monika Proba, Magdalena Stępień and Wojciech Oleksiak.
The podcast was brought to you by the Adam Mickiewicz Institute, if you'd like to listen to more music from today's featured artist please see the show notes for this episode or go to culture.pl/rebelspirits. Please do subscribe to Rebel Spirits wherever you get your podcasts and we’d be happy for you to share it. It’s been such a pleasure and I look forward to being with you again.