We Are Not Machines: An Interview with Marta Gardolińska

m.gardolinska_fot._grzegorz_mart_dla_nospr_.jpeg, default, Marta Gardolińska, photo: Grzegorz Mart for National Polish Radio Symphony Orchestra

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Marta Gardolińska, the current musical director of the Opéra National de Lorraine, discusses the well-being of musicians, problems with concentration and the excessively fast tempo of modern culture.

Marta Gardolińska is a rising star in the international world of conducting. In September 2022, she began her first season as a guest conductor at the Barcelona Symphony Orchestra and National Orchestra of Catalonia. In 2021, she took on the role of artistic director at the Opéra National de Lorraine in Nancy, the first woman to hold the position in the opera’s 250-year history. On 13 May, the conductor will conduct the Splendaurs polonaises programme in Nancy, in which the Orchestre symphonique et lyrique de Nancy will perform Antoni Szalowski’s Overture, Chopin’s Piano Concerto No. 1 in E minor and Witold Lutosławski’s Concerto for Orchestra.

In 2020, you met the musicians of the Opéra national de Lorraine for the first time, and a year later you became the opera director in Nancy. Were you able to become well acquainted with the musicians?

The beginning of my adventure in Nancy was rather unusual. It was in summer 2020, right after the first lockdown. Musical institutions were attempting to find their way through the reality of the pandemic – we were one of the first French orchestras that attempted a return to music. We undertook Aleksander von Zemlinski’s opera Der Traumgorge (1907), but I didn’t meet the whole orchestra at that time. The work was rearranged from a expanded symphony to something more intimate – the new version had to come together quickly, which meant it was not without mistakes. You could say that we had to discover the score anew. It was difficult, but a good experience of intense and collaborative work.

Now, I know the full orchestra; I’ve conducted three symphonic concerts, and we’re working on another opera. The first season in an orchestra is a time to meet the entire ensemble. I’m attempting to understand the dynamics, the internal hierarchies and the processes that have been in place for years. I have to decide the orchestra’s goal, the direction that we’ll be working towards as well as what has to change or improve. Beyond that, this is an unusual season, in which we are holding many auditions. A generational change is taking place.

Does this mean that an entire generation of musicians is retiring?

This year, a larger group than usual is retiring, but that’s composed of many factors. Before I began working in Nancy, the ensemble did not have a music director – some things didn’t move forward, because there was no one able to make decisions or changes. Likewise, auditions weren’t taking place due to the pandemic. Everything slowed down, and we now have to make up for the break in continuity.

From your perspective as a conductor, what are the differences between older and younger musicians? In this field, physical constitution is a factor, but on the other hand, maturity and experience is also important.

Musicians who have been working in an orchestra for years have a better knowledge of the repertoire and of playing as a group. They understand the orchestra since they’ve spent many years of their lives there. Young musicians, on the other hand, are coming straight from conservatories, courses or competitions, meaning they are at their prime. They should be curious, filled with energy. They have to be taught the ropes, helped in establishing a space in the orchestra as well as supported in building their self-confidence.

Because young musicians don’t have as much experience, they sometimes have a harder time expressing their musicality. Older musicians can lose motivation, feel bored. Even when performing a standard repertoire, works that musicians play their entire lives, the role of a conductor is to build engagement, to underscore the uniqueness of a piece.

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Marta Gardolińska, photo: Grzegorz Mart for National Polish Radio Symphony Orchestra

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You studied Music Physiology at the University of Music and Performing Arts in Vienna. What do these studies entail?

Speaking generally, we studied musician well-being: how to avoid injuries, how to handle being on stage, taking part in competitions and auditions as well as how to plan a long-term career.

I’ve been in a few situations where fellow musicians asked me for advice – as long as I felt knowledgeable on the subject, I tried to help. Nowadays I lack the time, but I’m still expanding my knowledge for personal use. Only after years of working have I begun to understand the importance of taking care of myself. When I feel good both physically and mentally, I react differently whilst conducting and I have a different connection with the musicians.

Do you give the orchestra musicians advice on how to better take care of themselves? Any injuries would likely affect the ensemble’s work.

I can’t do that whilst in the role of a conductor or music director, as it’s too invasive. Besides, it’s a taboo topic for musicians. When I worked at the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra in England, I knew the musicians longer and gave them some advice at their request. I was an assistant there, which made the relationship more collegial.

Where does the fear of discussing personal health come from amongst musicians?

I think that we have to refer back to the beginning – education. At conservatories or schools, no one discusses how being a professional musician impacts health. When problems arise, musicians think that something is wrong with them or that they made a mistake. This is often tied with a fear of gaining employment. It’s a vicious cycle – a serious injury can impact the quality of music, and in certain cases even cut short a career. This is exactly why it should be discussed during the early stages of education, and the focus should be on preventing injuries, not just treating them.

I occasionally deal with situations in which members of the orchestra have to take leave due to an inflamed tendon or other health problem. Many instruments require a non-ergonomic posture; sometimes the rehearsals are packed together or projects overlap, leading to excess burden on the performer. However, everything can be controlled. Playing an instrument isn’t unhealthy, but it’s important to give the body time to rest, to participate in active regeneration. Balance is necessary.

I’ll discuss my own experiences. Around the end of my studies and the beginning of my professional career, due to excessive scheduling, the psychological pressure tied to school and shortcomings in my piano and conducting technique, I experienced a double elbow injury, the so-called tennis and boxer’s elbow simultaneously. At the time that the injury presented itself, I was in the middle of an intensive period – I was conducting an operetta and an amateur orchestra, accompanying singers as well as still studying. I had to take care of the injury myself: I took pain medication, taped the elbow with kinesiology tape and eventually started physical therapy. Until I took a break and returned to the basics – breathing, mental regulation – the problem didn’t go away, even with physical therapy. These were important salutary activities, but they weren’t easy. It’s difficult to realise that the technique you’d been studying for years was incomplete.

Did the pandemic affect the health of musicians?

It certainly affected their mental health. The beginning of this season – when we finally played with the full ensemble – was an unusual moment. Beautiful, but strange. For so many months musicians were in isolation, incapable of performing together. It was necessary to build the team anew – familiarise them with each other and teach how to listen to other musicians.

Returning to music can also create problems on a physical level. This is the moment when injuries are most common. After every break, even a vacation, it’s important to practice in order to get back in shape. It’s easy to overexert yourself, and it’s worth remembering that the body needs to accustom itself to physical exertion gradually. Think of wind instruments – the pandemic required us to play in smaller ensembles, meaning there was often no room for brass instruments. These musicians went a long time without regularly playing and without the opportunity to play in larger spaces full of other musicians.

Speaking of form, we often think of physical ability. In music, especially in conducting, concentration is also important.

Cultivating the ability to concentrate is very difficult these days – the constant contact with the Internet and phones is very distracting. It’s important to have discipline in disconnecting from technology. Similar to discipline in disconnecting from work. Many people don’t realise how important it is to organise your time to facilitate disconnecting from work, refraining from constantly making new decisions and keeping track of new information. You have to allow yourself to take a break (or force yourself to take one). I’m slowly discovering meditation techniques for myself. Finding five, ten minutes to focus on only one thing, such as your breath or what you see, is very impactful. Sometimes you have to stop the constant flood of thoughts – thinking about emails, who to write back to, plans for the future, backlogs… I try to do it everyday, even just for a moment.

Longer breaks are also important. In this career path, it’s easy to forget about vacation. We move from one project to the next, barely finding time to pack our suitcases. Sleep is something obtained during the taxi ride to the airport. I’ve noticed, that after spending even a few days away from work, whether it’s at my family home or on vacation, I have a completely different approach to the next project, as opposed to when I throw myself immediately into the whirlwind of working. Here lies the problem – the contemporary world of culture sometimes forgets, that we are not machines. Our mind needs to rest. Participating in more projects is fantastic, but the ability to say ‘no’ can be healthier. And from a long-term perspective, it’s also more advantageous for our career.

How should one keep his memory sharp?

An inability to remember things, at least in my case, is often a consequence of fatigue. I have my own method of memorising music scores, but if I’m tired, I’m unable to remember anything. Conducting in and of itself is a wonderful method of training your mind; it requires both analytical and synthetic thinking, as well as the ability to make decisions quickly. This is all combined with movement and coordination, which is equally important for your mind. Perhaps this is why we have, and have always had, long-living maestros.

What about taking care of your hearing?

In the case of a conductor, this isn’t too big of an issue. We're rather privileged that we are less exposed to the noise of the whole orchestra. I don’t have to use earplugs at work. I don’t specialise in an avant-garde repertoire, which sometimes requires earplugs for the musicians and even the conductor. I also know of cases, where industrial-grade headphones are required… Outside of that we usually work in silence. An important part of my day is silent work on a score. Sometimes I play the work on the piano, but my hearing is rarely overtaxed. None of the musicians have that luxury.

At the Opera in Nancy we’re measuring the acoustics anew – we’ve invited a team to study the effect of sound on certain groups of musicians in the orchestra. The results will help us implement eventual changes that will protect the musicians’ hearing, which in the long-term is an important element of our career.

The Opéra national de Lorraine has existed continuously since 1758. In what ways does the opera cultivate local traditions?

Our repertoire focuses on the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th, a fascinating period when tonality reached its end. For Nancy, this was a great period of development in the context of fine art, especially design. The art nouveau movement was born then; many link that movement with Paris, but its cradle is the École de Nancy. The artists were in close contact with craftsmen, with the town – we want to refer back to this tradition.

We want to return to the tradition of art tying to people and to the city. A situation, in which art and life intertwine, commingle. In this way the idea of the ‘Nancy – Opéra citoyen’ project was born, which creates new works inspired by the histories of Nancy’s citizens. They are performed publicly. The libretto to the first Opéra citoyen was created out of passing citizens’ answers to the question: ‘Êtes-vous amoureux?.’ ‘Are you in love?’. Instead of a traditional performance, the music was accompanied by short films created in various city locations.

This year’s edition will be even more experimental, utilising video-mapping techniques of buildings. Place Stanislas [editor’s note: the main square in Nancy, named after King Stanisław Leszczyński, former king of Poland] with its beautiful town hall will become part of the scenery. Members of the orchestra will also participate in the staging. It’s an exciting project, and I’m hoping to attend as a spectator, regardless of my own projects.

On the 12th of May you will be conducting the concert ‘Splendeurs polonaises’. The Opéra national de Lorraine in Nancy will perform Antoni Szałowski’s ‘Overture’, Chopin’s ‘Piano Concerto No. 1 in E minor’ and Witold Lutosławski’s ‘Concerto for Orchestra’. Before the war, ‘Overture’ was the most frequently performed Polish composition and received a gold medal at the World’s Fair in Paris, but few people remember it.

The concert’s programme contains Chopin (well known), Lutosławski (less known) and Szałowski (completely unknown) – forming a certain gradient of composers. I’m interested in the histories that resulted in fantastic composers disappearing from our repertoire and our memories. Szałowski was born around the same time as Lutosławski and the two had similar experiences during the war, but their careers developed differently. Szałowski had the opportunity to travel to France, where he studied under Nadia Boulanger.

The ‘Overture’ contains both French and Polish elements. There’s a feeling of motion, something characteristic for Polish music at the time, simultaneously a lot of grace and colour, reminiscent of Boulanger’s school. It’s an excellent, neo-classical work that was very valued during its time.

Do you dream of performing other forgotten composers?

In the future season of the Opera in Nancy there will be a few such works, but the season hasn’t been announced yet, so I can’t betray anything. I will say that we’ll hear two compositions from Poland, which are rarely played.

I dream of playing Jean Nouguès’s opera Quo Vadis – it was a popular premiere during its season (in 1906 in Vienna, it attracted greater audiences than Richard Strauss’s Salome). I looked through the score, but unfortunately there are no voices, only piano – it would require great effort. It’s a grand opera with a gigantic choir, enormous orchestra, many soloists. A beautiful thing, easy to listen to with catch melodies – I think it would attract all kinds of music lovers.

Do you like playing Chopin?

I do, but I prefer to listen. It’s such emotional music that I have some difficulty tearing myself away from simply enjoying it, which is hard since a conductor is supposed to keep a clear head and correct the orchestra’s work.

It’s important to engage a virtuoso – after all, Chopin’s works are usually played by them.

This can also be a challenge, but I like accompanying. My orchestra is an opera ensemble – they have to be flexible. Thanks to this, they’re great at reacting to various tempo rubatos and Chopinesque bel cantos.

Thumbnail — Marta Gardolińska, photo: Grzegorz Mart for NOSPR

I truly prize soloists who come to orchestras with a strong opinion of how they will play a specific work. It becomes much easier to enter a dialogue or decide which vision to follow. It’s more difficult to work with musicians who are uncertain or who expect a conductor to propose everything. An uncertain soloist is difficult to accompany. It’s a different situation with singers – some focus more on technique than the music. If they are unable to refrain from thinking solely about sound or technique, it’s hard to discuss creating music together. Moving from discussing technique to discussing music is what allows the artist’s personality to shine. The effects can be beautiful.

Do you have a performance of Chopin’s works you consider perfect?

I really like the recording of Krystian Zimerman with the Polish Festival Orchestra. They’re quite radical, the orchestral side in terms of expression and dynamics are in a certain sense reformulated, the tempo rubata is extreme, but within it there’s an agonising pain and beauty. I also like young Jewgienij Kisin’s performance, the oldest one [ed. note: the pianist recorded both piano concertos at the age of 12]. Every time, I’m amazed that a child can convey such deep emotions. How is it possible, that someone who has spent so few years on Earth, has such a connection to emotions? I find it hard to understand.

At the end of our interview I’d like to turn to current affairs. How did the French classical music world react to the war in Ukraine?

It’s a difficult topic for me as the reactions are various. Many people are concerned, but I have the feeling that it all depends on people’s individual contacts and experiences with the East, with Ukraine. There is certainly a lack of awareness regarding the scale of the conflict, an awareness that exists in Poland or Baltic countries. You could say that some French citizens are completely removed from the situation. Everyone is against the war, against aggression, but they don’t have the feeling that it can affect them personally (beyond the fear of nuclear warfare). French society has a luxury in being able to philosophise on the topic of war, treating certain issues with relativism. For the past few months I’ve been reading Andrzej Bobkowski’s Szkice Piórkiem (Sketches with a Pen) and I can’t avoid the feeling, that the world hasn’t changed since 1939.

Poland’s approach to the Russian repertoire was met in France with great controversy. It’s often discussed, there are many voices who fear censorship, the complete exclusion of Russian music from concerts. Thankfully, the decision to blacklist people collaborating or supporting the regime from the musical scene was not met with controversy.

Originally written in Polish by Filip Lech, translated by Alicja Zapalska May 2022

Language English

Marta Gardolińska

nancy

Opéra national de Lorraine

polish classical music

polish conductors of the 21st century

women conductors