FL: How can music talk about history?
BL: I would say there is a type of music that consists of both verbal and non-verbal sign systems. As soon as language enters into music, you can, of course, make political statements. That's very clear. But the dangerous, but also powerful thing about music, is this non-verbal component – when you can convey emotion, change or create consciousness. I think the shifting of consciousness, that's one of the most interesting tasks in aesthetics and in art in general, as Foucault said. To change a perspective and to change consciousness – this is the power of music. We saw this in the example of the Vietnam war. I think that one Bob Dylan song managed more in convincing the need for a peaceful attitude than a hundred conferences of politicians. Music as the language of the soul is able to bring a message of peace and understanding to people, we saw this – it happened in the 1960s and it worked.
On the other hand we know that the III Reich used music very intelligently just to motivate people going to war. I see the whole construction of the III Reich as a big mise en scène of the Gotterdammerung – big Wagner opera basically with burned scorched earth and the Gods falling from heaven. It goes both ways. I think the dimension of intentionality is crucial. The intentionality in this composition is clearly to lighten up consciousness and this is not a thing which is outdated, but which was kind of forgotten. As a young person, I witnessed people demonstrating against the Vietnam War and I saw them succeed – the war ended. The entire attitude of American people – and with a delay of 5-6 years, this happened in Europe too – towards war changed. And then the media and the politicians tried to bring back the emphasis for war again. And they worked on this for decades and they managed. Today, people are not that critical towards war situations.
And here it's all about remembrance and not forgetting what happened on the very ground that we are standing on. What really changed people and what turned people into monsters, made people into a society where you just want to run, you just want to go away from these people. And I think this enlightenment and this intentionality is more important than ever. For me, people started to live so much with the situation of war, they accept it, in a way. And politicians just doing business by dealing weapons. What times are we living in? Are these preparations for WWIII?
The thing is, I think that the war has already reached our society, that within our society there is already this rising tension of people who are actually rich and well fed and have become aggressive against each other. We saw this during the corona situation, how people behaved. I was afraid of my neighbours, I have to say. I was, by coincidence, in an anti-corona demonstration in Vienna. I really considered them to be dangerous. I never thought I would see this.
It reminded me of stories my mother told me, when Hitler entered Austria, that people on the streets where really getting into a frenzy of sorts about that. It's all about, on the one hand, remembrance. We should never forget what the Ringelblum Archive described; how quickly human kind can deviate into a monstrous situation. On the other hand, we should fight against the return of such systems. I have to confess, in the 1980s, I was more optimistic that we were becoming an open society, where everything is possible and Nazis are happening in Steven Spielberg’s movies and they are not really any more.
This drastically changed in the 2000s, I think. It had changed before, of course, but the drastic change with the reemergence of accepted right-wing politics in Europe, with all this Berlusconi, Orbans – all these guys which were allowed into European parliament, I think this is where the system changes. So the great-granddaughter of Mussolini suddenly is reemerging again.Fortunately, Hitler didn't have any kids, but those who are akin to his spirit are still here.
FL: Are there any history-related musical compositions that you particularly like?
BL: Yes, absolutely. A Survivor from Warsaw by Arnold Schoenberg, Threnody to the Victims of Hiroshima by Krzysztof Penderecki and perhaps also the IIIth Symphony by Henryk Mikołaj Górecki, Different Trains by Steve Reich. I think the bulk of Lachenmann's works are political – this is political stuff. Some works of Peter Ablinger, some of the Voices and Piano pieces are definitely very strong political statements. This comes to my mind at once.
I was very impressed when Dobrowolski introduced us to Penderecki’s Threnody in Graz in the 1980s. This was such a strong political message – without saying a word. It's really so strong that you know exactly what the music is telling you there. And without needing any text.
FL: My last question is rather complicated: what does it mean for you to be a composer?
BL: This question might be simple, but it’s definitely not easy. I would say, as far I understand myself, I'm a worker, a working person – in the literal sense. Since my work is handmade, I sell it myself and I work in cultural industries, you could say. I see myself as an individual enterprise, which deals with all areas of labour and production. I think this is for me a wonderful thing in the composition process – that your product is not being alienated from you, but that you stay with your product and you identify with it. That's certainly a bit idealistic, because capitalism makes sure that you are exploited in some way or another, but that's how I like to define myself. As a working person. Arbeiter in German.
FL: Robotnik in Polish.