Indicators of a Good Neighbour: A Conversation with Źmicier Wajciuszkiewicz

zmicier-wajciuszkiewicz-fot-materialy-artysty.jpg, default, Źmicier Wajciuszkiewicz, photo: courtesy of the artist, Indicators of a Good Neighbour: A Conversation with Źmicier Wajciuszkiewicz

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Źmicier Wajciuszkiewicz, the Belarusian bard, member of the WZ-Orchestra and the bands Pałac and Kryvi, tells us all about Polish-Belarusian cross-border cultural exchange, Rafał Wojaczek's poetry, as well as internal emigration.

Michał Dąbrowski (MD): When we were arranging our interview, I asked you if we could meet in Poland. You said you would like to but you can’t. I understand that this is not a political issue but rather is due to the pandemic?

Źmicier Wajciuszkiewicz: Yes. If I were to come to Poland, I would have to stay for a while. In September 2020, I had two concerts in Warsaw – one at the National Stadium and one on Polish National Television (TVP). We had a permit to leave, the second wave was just beginning. Now, to leave, you need a special document.

MD: How are you and your family experiencing the social protests after the elections in Belarus?

ŹW: My wife was in prison for four days and she has still been unable to deal with the situation. We have a house near the Neman River – agritourism. Some time ago, my wife was afraid because there was a suspicious bus was parked nearby. This kind of paranoia is widespread in the country. Many people who were imprisoned at that time are now experiencing something similar, living in fear. My wife even took some time off from work to deal with it but it will be a long time before she forgets.

MD: I guess it's hard to be an optimist in this situation?

ŹW: Well, nowadays there are more and more optimists in Belarus – people are going out into the streets despite the freezing temperatures. There is hope and there is a chance for change. I have been trying to be an optimist for the last twenty years. Today I heard that if people stop going out, over time, those who do dare to protest will be punished. So, in a sense, there is no going back. When will this end? It would be good if it happened before the New Year; it would be a great gift for Belarus as well as the world. But I'm not that optimistic.

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Я нарадзіўся тут. Зьміцер Вайцюшкевіч.

MD: Twenty years have passed since the premiere of your album ‘Ja naradziusia tut’ (I was born here) with the title track describing the realities of life in Belarus. How have you changed during this time?

ŻW: It's a philosophical question; I don't know what to say.

I have lived in Belarus all this time – I run an agritourism here. It is a sort of internal emigration for me. Between 2011 and 2016 I did not have the opportunity to play in Belarus, and yet I did not leave permanently. I toured Poland as well as Europe many times before the pandemic.

During these twenty years I lived my life, toured, and recorded albums. I released albums, which included the works of Rafał Wojaczek and Jaromir Nohavica in Belarusian. Previously, little was said about these artists in Belarusian music circles. I also recorded with Polish bands, like Czeremszyna. I played concerts with the Jorgi Quartet.

Besides that, I lead a normal life – I have children, who are growing up quickly. From an evolutionary point of view, it’s like a flash in time.

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MD: What has changed in Belarusians that they desired change?

ŹW: It is all planned near Warsaw, or somewhere near Bydgoszcz. There is a special centre there that is paid for by American and Jewish money… I'm kidding, of course.

I used to be a political scientist, now, with the Internet, everyone is one...

But seriously. I think that Belarusians finally became mature enough for a change? I hope that's the way it really is. If we look at the history of Czechoslovakia and Hungary, the transition was more of a process. It seems to me that it is similar with us. I am not an expert, but if I were to summarize it in a few words, it seems that the Belarusian nation was reborn in these twenty years.

For now, it’s more of a romantic spurt but surely many people don’t want the current situation to continue. People go work in Poland – to Białystok, Kraków. They see what the houses look like there, learn about a different way of life, meet new people.

Looking at the protests, it can be said that people began to perceive the world differently. In short, they concluded that they had lived a lie for many years. They see that the authorities are constantly trying to interpret the constitution in their own way.

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Я нарадзіўся тут - Нёман (live, 2000)

MD: What your connection with Poland?

ŹW: I was born in western Belarus, in the Borderlands. My agritourism is located 20 km from Navahrudak (Nowogródek), the place where Adam Mickiewicz was born. My grandfather was in the Polish Army before World War II, and later, he was a partisan. I have two pictures of him – one in uniform and one with his medals for courage.

A large family that included both Catholics and Orthodox lived on Niemeńska Street, where I lived. Brothers, sisters, their wives and husbands. They differed in religion depending on who married who. So for a long time I heard both ‘Polish trasianka’ and ‘Belarusian trasianka’ [editor’s note: trasianka – a specific mixture of Russian and Belarusian. Here this term was used in relation to Polish and Belarusian], such simple languages. Polish and Belarusian were constantly mixed here. During the promotion of my album with Wojaczek's poems, I said that since I was born on such a street, I must understand everything in Polish. However, reading Wojaczek's poetry in the beginning was not easy. I understood it but not fully.

MD: Is it language that connects the people living on the Polish-Belarusian border?

ŹW: I think that the people living on the Polish-Belarusian border are similar to each other, regardless of whether we’re talking about the cities of Brest, Grodno or Hajnówka. We are connected by a mentality that may seem a bit strange to people from other places, from, for example, near Poznań, but we get along here, we understand one another.

We’ve lived on this border for a very long time, and, at one time, even without a border. Many families have been separated as a result of political changes. There is probably more peace between neighbours here than in other similar places in the world. The Belarusian nation was perhaps too quiescent for years now.

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Зьміцер Вайцюшкевіч - Матуля

MD: And it’s waking up today?

ŹW: I hope that it will wake up! So that the country can enrich itself and the people can be free. Of course, I don’t mean superpower demands such as ‘our Vilnius’, ‘our Lviv’, although I know that such sentiments are present not only in Poland, but also in Belarus today. I mean living side by side harmoniously, traveling without visas. We have to have hope that thanks to culture, people will be able to get along, at least near the border.

MD: What does your family say about the war?

ŹW: My grandfather was in the Polish Army, and then became a partisan. He fought on the Soviet side of the border. The village where he fought was called Lyakhavichy. He died a few years after the war, probably as a result of wounds sustained during the fighting. I don't know the details of his life. Typical of a military man – he was there where he was told to be.

Near Navahrudak, where I was born, there was a partisan living on one street and a Home Army soldier on the other. In 1943, my uncle – who was then three months old – was taken with his father to the forest. My uncle's father was wounded there and later died. Until recently, no one knew who did it – it turned out to be one of the neighbours. For what reason? We don’t know. Which partisans? Also unknown. This war story comes back to me – and it tires me. I would really prefer to forget about it.

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'Solidarity with Belarus' concert, Warsaw, 12 May 2006, photo: Krzysztof Kuczyk / Forum

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MD: How does one foster borderland culture?

ŹW: Various actions have been taken on the Polish side over the past twenty, twenty-five years: meetings with Sokrat Janowicz, the Basóvišča Music Festival of Young Belarus. Czeremszyna's band initiates many activities. There is also the Bards’ Autumn Festival in Bielsk Podlaski, which will soon celebrate its 30th anniversary. In Belarus we still don’t have a similar event. Of course, I’m talking about the activities of the Belarusian minority in these areas, because I know these events.

There are some Belarusian initiatives though, e.g. in the vicinity of the Augustów Canal. However, their approach is different – there they do not want to associate any ideology with their actions. ‘We do business, we don’t talk about politics’. Unions of Poles [editor’s note: associations whose goal is to support Polish education, Polish culture and traditions] exist in Belarus; somehow they function but are controlled by the government. It’s important for Belarusian officials that politics are not involved in the events they organise – they should be strictly cultural. I hope that something good will comes out of both Poland and Belarus.

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Źmicier Wajciuszkiewicz performing with Czeremszyna, Kino Forum, Białystok, 2013, photo: Agnieszka Sadowska / Agencja Gazeta

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MD: I can’t remember a summer when I was a kid that there wasn’t at least one concert in Hajnówka, Białowieża, or Czeremcha.

ŹW: It could have been that way. I was once walking around Białowieża and it was hard to find a place where I hadn’t played a concert. Hotels, pubs, schools – I played everywhere.

MD: Can you tell me more about the Polish-Belarusian projects which you’ve participated in?

ŹW: In 2012, I released the album Wojaczek with poetry by Rafał Wojaczek. I also co-created the album Co na sercu… (What’s in the heart...) with the band Czeremszyna, which we released in 2011. As the WZ-Orchestra, we played a big concert with the Polish band Werchowyna at the Polish Radio Studio. As I already mentioned, I also toured with the Jorgi Quartet.

Somewhat less officially, I drank vodka with Tymon Tymański, whiskey with one of the brothers from Golec uOrkiestra, and beer with the Chłopcy z Placu Broni band. And, I’m saying this publicly for the first time: I recorded their song Wolność (Freedom) in Belarusian. The guys from the band don't know about it yet… but they gave me permission to do it.

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Зміцер Вайцюшкевіч — Свабода (cover па-беларуску Chłopcy z Placu Broni — Kocham wolność)

MD: How was the Belarusian version of ‘Wolność’ created?

This song didn't just appear in my repertoire. In 2006, the first ‘Solidarity with Belarus’ concert took place in Warsaw. That is when Alaksandr Kulinkowicz from the band Neuro Dubel sang the song in Belarusian for the first time. They play punk, so at times it wasn't really clear what the song was about. At that time, the translation was done by the late Michał Aniempadystau, the author of Narodny Album.

This will be my version:

Свабоду не аддам нікому.
Люблю і разумею —
Свабоду не аддам нікому.
Свабоду не аддасць ніхто мне.

•

I won’t give away my freedom to anyone.
I love and understand —
I won’t give away my freedom to anyone.
No one will give me my freedom back.

^{Trans. AD}

MD: Another Belarusian version of a Polish ‘hymn’ has been sung during the protests – Jacek Kaczmarski's ‘Mury’ (Walls). Do these iconic songs of freedom work in new contexts?

ŹW: There’s no time to think about that now. Everyone is just doing what they can. I'm singing. For me, such mutual inspiration is a natural process, because music connects people. The song Peremen by Kino also inspires people, even though the group is Russian.

MD: The songs have no nationality?

ŹW: They do but it doesn't matter that much. Walls had already been translated into Russian – people know the song.

What I think is a new phenomenon is that during the six months of protests, people have memorised many songs in Belarusian. Previously, most people stayed at home, went to work – there was no antagonism between the so-called ‘normal people’ and the authorities like there is now. Ten years ago, 700 people were imprisoned during street protests; today, it’s over 30,000.

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Мірныя людзі

MD: You sang about the needs of peaceful people in the song ‘Мірныя людзі’ (Peaceful People)…

ŹW: Yes. ‘People in pursuit dream of a miracle, their hearts pound against their chests’ – this is how a fragment of the song was translated by my friend from Białowieża.

MD: To sum up – you interpret the works of a Polish poet, translate the hits of a Czech bard, and give concerts with bands drawing on Polish, Belarusian as well as Ukrainian traditions.

ŹW: It will sound simple but as people, the more we all understand each other, the easier it is to get along. When the gross domestic product grows, it can be seen in economic indicators. It’s not the same with culture – it is impossible to measure good neighbours. It’s a process. During the protests, we’ve received a lot of expressions of solidarity from Ukraine and Russia. People support us on the Internet, write to us. Poland started to support us 20 or 30 years earlier – and has been doing it consistently ever since.

It's no secret, so I'll say it: no country has done more for Belarusian culture than Poland. Thank you very much for this support. It means a lot to us.

^{Interview originally conducted in Polish, Dec 2020, translated by Agnes Dudek}

Tytuł (nagłówek do zdjęcia)

In Our Own Way

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zmicier wajciuszkiewicz

kultura białoruska

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pogranicze polsko-białoruskie

The Road to Freedom: Poland in Solidarity with Belarus