Musicologists like comparisons. Would you see any cross-influence with Britten’s War Requiem? It was written before The Passenger and it’s not unlikely that Weinberg was familiar with it.
I suppose it’s possible. The War Requiem is certainly one of Britten’s greatest works and I do it quite a lot. What the two pieces have in common is this depiction of the futility of war. The Passenger to me is more about the way people support each other and what brings people together under very dire, cruel circumstances and also about remembering – that we do not forget, we learn the lessons from these experiences. Both pieces have that very strong message: we must remember. In the opera in the epilogue Marta says clearly that you may never forget and that is what Britten also says as in his piece. It is dedicated to the four people whom Britten knew and who died in World War II and to the great English poet Wilfred Owen who was killed in World War I. This feeling of empathy for the victims of war and man’s inhumanity to man is the great message that these pieces have in common.
That’s the message. And on a purely technical level, knowing the two pieces intimately, would you see any similarities in e.g. orchestration?
They both actually have a huge range, from the most violent, from the big moments, think of Britten’s setting of the Dies Irae and some of the climactic moments in Weinberg, e.g. when women in Auschwitz are singing, we have great volume and intensity. But Britten specifically uses a separate chamber orchestra to accompany the Wilfred Owen poems with two male soloists. There are very many moments of great delicacy and chamber music-like texture in Weinberg that are in a way very similar – this ability to have this huge sound world which can be reduced to something so intimate.
Could we talk about the musical quotes in The Passenger? There is a Schubert march, for example.
I think Schubert would have not been happy to know the context in which this was used, as this moment in the opera is showing German militarism, which is the last thing Schubert would have wanted. Also there is a marvelous moment when Bronka has a kind of prayer, which is accompanied by a 15th century Polish church melody, which has an extraordinary power. It is a simple moment, the orchestra is playing this chant, without vibrato, so we have an ancient feeling to it and Bronka is chanting on top in the most passionate way. Then there is the folk song which Katya sings, completely unaccompanied, which is a very moving moments, a moment of great tenderness between Katya and Marta.
And there is the Bach quote, when Tadeusz plays the Chaconne. When the orchestra takes over from the solo violin, how much of this strange orchestral colour is actually written in the score, and how much is a conductor’s contribution? The juxtaposition between the solo violin and the orchestra was very strong here in Chicago, I did not notice that in the previous productions.
It is an extraordinary moment. A shocking moment dramatically, when Tadeusz is summoned to play the violin for the Kommandant, and he is supposed to be playing the Kommandant’s favourite waltz which we have heard at the beginning of the same act, which is a trivial nasty tune. And instead he plays the Bach Chaconne, which is one of Bach’s great pieces. Actually originally, if you look at the score, it seems that Weinberg intended it to be played by all the violins in the pit. It was a decision of David Pountney’s to have the violinist on stage. Of course it is a little trick because you need a double, a violinist who is roughly the same built as the singer singing Tadeusz. But then after a while the orchestra violins join in and take over the sound.
And take it apart.
And it continues, but underneath there is this core, which builds up in the brass, one note at a time, and I’ve got goose bumps just thinking about it.
Like we all did at the performance.
And again this is transformed, from the great piece by Bach to a scene of dreadful brutality, when the SS officers beat Tadeusz up and break his violin. That is a climax at the end of the story, which is a metaphor. The destruction of human beings is in a way represented by the destruction of this great piece of the musical literature. And then we have this fantastic chorus, which repeats the same line, again and again, disappearing into the distance. It is again a brilliant idea, as we can see how the past is disappearing. And then the epilogue comes, which is Marta [or Zofia Posmysz?] alone remembering. Interestingly enough, in the score it says that if the director wishes there may be a cut. To me it is the most ridiculous idea I could think of, because the epilogue really gives us some kind of resolution, solace, something that does not make the whole thing bearable but gives us perspective. This survivor who knows that life must continue.
The whole cast here is absolutely wonderful. What makes the Chicago production different, however, is the character of Walter, sung by Brandon Jovanovich. He is not dramatic, but more lyric, close to the way you sing early romantic Lieder, and I am even tempted to think, close to the Evangelist in Bach’s Passion. If it is so, then the Bach metaphor begins with Walter and ends with the Chaconne.
I would not personally cast Jovanovich in a Bach Passion but he definitely has an ability to phrase. To show the delicacy and tenderness. It’s a very odd part, Walter. And so is Liese. We see how she was drawn into this evil world. Or did she choose to be part of it? It’s a metaphor for what happed in Germany in that dreadful time, how a whole nation went into this. Germany has taken a long time to come to terms with this past. Hitler was one of the most evil men that ever lived. There is a kind of sympathy with which Liese is drawn. She is an ambivalent figure, we don’t just hate her, we see that she was conflicted. That is what I so much love about this work – nothing is over-simplified. There is complexity in all the relationships. That is what makes it such a great piece dramatically.
Where are the difficulties for the singers in this opera?
There are some difficult moments. Uniformly I think it is a very strong cast. The rehearsal process was fascinating, as some singers knew the music already and some were doing it for the first time, including our young singers, who did very well. They were all drawn into this world somewhat to their surprise. When you don’t really know the piece and you discover it from the inside sometimes it is the very best way of learning and growing in a role.
When Zofia Posmysz came to rehearsal how did you feel and change the music making?
It did not change anything we did. To have this most beautiful person with us, a remarkable lady, that was a moment that affected us very profoundly. The orchestra, from the first rehearsal, have been drawn into the whole world of the piece, although not all of them knew what the piece was about. To actually meet Zofia Posmysz and to see the beauty in the personality of this woman who survived and wrote about it in such a powerful way did affect us all very, very much. I have personally been seldom so moved and so profoundly stirred by anything. After the premiere one felt absolutely that this message has reached the audience. There was a silence after the performance.